March 1997 - chemweb - imperial.ac.uk

Re: crystal structures with Chime
by Tim Maffett 07 Mar '97

07 Mar '97

At 04:03 PM 3/6/97 GMT, RICHARD SINGER wrote: >In reply to my earlier comment on "invisible" inorganic crystal structures >Mitch Miller wrote > > >>I think you could work around the problem my coding > > <embed src="mycrystal.xyz" display3D="ball&stick" height=300 width=300...> > >>This way the structure would initially appear in ball and stick mode. > >This is fine if the viewer of the structure (me) is also in control of the web >page in which its embedded! The problem I refer to is with third >party web pages and was brought to my attention >when visiting RB Young & M Mehl's crystal structure website at > >http://cst-www.navy.nrl.mil/lattice/ > >you'll see some simple cubic structures which will be displayed >by Chime or Rasmol as blank pages until you switch display mode >to ball & stick. I can think of no way around this problem - >- unless its possible to set up Chime to display as ball & stick by >default? I will discuss (w/our chime team) adding a feature to Chime which will place it in ball&stick mode is a structure has *no* bonds, and no other display mode has been specified. It might be nice to display ball&stick if there are any 'lone' atoms (no bonds), so that all atoms would be visible, but I can think of files where this might be a problem. Does that sounds like it would be a solution to your problem ? We are also discussing various 'user preferences' that we could add to the/a 'for sale' version of Chime. Default display modes for different filetypes/situations is one of many preferences that we can think of that would be nice to have. -tim Tim Maffett tim(a)mdli.com Principal Architect, Internet Technologies MDL Information Systems, Inc. >Richard Singer > > > ----------------------------------------- > Dr Richard Singer > School of Applied Chemistry > Kingston University > Penrhyn Road > Surrey KT1 2EE > UK > Tel 0181 547 2000 ext 2471 > FAX 0181 547 7562 > ----------------------------------------- > >----- >chemweb: A list for Chemical Applications of the Internet. >Archived as: http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/chemweb/ >To unsubscribe, send to listserver(a)ic.ac.uk the following message; >unsubscribe chemweb >List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (rzepa(a)ic.ac.uk) > > > ----- chemweb: A list for Chemical Applications of the Internet. Archived as: http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/chemweb/ To unsubscribe, send to listserver(a)ic.ac.uk the following message; unsubscribe chemweb List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (rzepa(a)ic.ac.uk)

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Re: paperless submission of Student Cousework
by Jeffrey.Nauss＠UC.Edu 06 Mar '97

06 Mar '97

On Mar 6, 6:40pm, RICHARD SINGER wrote: > Dr Nauss wrote regarding marking emailed UG work > > >In this case, using the redline markup option found in many wordprocessors > >allows the instructor to "mark" the assignments. > > Do I detect a cultural difference in the meaning of the word "mark" > here? I mean it in the sense of "grading"... No, no difference. We were basically referring to the same thing. > Having said all that I don't use paperless assignments unless I'm > actually teaching chemistry using computers in the first place. eg > use of spreadsheets in chemistry, use of ChemWindows, > molecular modelling etc. I think this is an important point and coincides with with what I had previously stated - "Students may have to learn the software. They probably would need to become fairly adept at using it for attachments and such." Teaching the proper use of the computers and software would probably have to be a significant part of the course - at least for now. > the thought of 150 word processed first year experiment > reports with bitmap graphics appearing on my hard drive is > frightening! LOL :-O Indeed! -- Jeffrey L. Nauss, PhD Telephone: 513-556-0148 Dir. Molec. Model. Serv. Fax: 513-556-9239 Department of Chemistry e-mail: Jeffrey.Nauss(a)UC.Edu University of Cincinnati URL http://www.che.uc.edu/~nauss ----- chemweb: A list for Chemical Applications of the Internet. Archived as: http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/chemweb/ To unsubscribe, send to listserver(a)ic.ac.uk the following message; unsubscribe chemweb List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (rzepa(a)ic.ac.uk)

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Re: paperless submission of Student Cousework
by RICHARD SINGER 06 Mar '97

06 Mar '97

Dr Nauss wrote regarding marking emailed UG work >In this case, using the redline markup option found in many wordprocessors >allows the instructor to "mark" the assignments. Do I detect a cultural difference in the meaning of the word "mark" here? I mean it in the sense of "grading" I don't know what a "redline markup" is! My "marking" of a script simply involves typing comments in a distinctive colour (red) at appropriate places and attaching a grade to the work at the bottom. He goes on >Granted the turn-around time could be quick but I am skeptical of the overall >advantages. if you're looking for a saving in instructor's time then I doubt the use of paperless assignments can deliver on this - and you're tied to your desk too. But there are other advantages. For example return of work is guaranteed, work cannot go missing (well, not usually..!), Some sorts of plagiarism is easy to spot - (identical graphs with the same errors proliferated etc) there's no problem deciphering poor handwriting, students can't claim to have handed in work when they have not, submission of work is automatically date stamped by the emailing process and so on. Having said all that I don't use paperless assignments unless I'm actually teaching chemistry using computers in the first place. eg use of spreadsheets in chemistry, use of ChemWindows, molecular modelling etc. The process of extracting the files is quite tedious and the thought of 150 word processed first year experiment reports with bitmap graphics appearing on my hard drive is frightening! Richard Singer ----------------------------------------- Dr Richard Singer School of Applied Chemistry Kingston University Penrhyn Road Surrey KT1 2EE UK Tel 0181 547 2000 ext 2471 FAX 0181 547 7562 ----------------------------------------- ----- chemweb: A list for Chemical Applications of the Internet. Archived as: http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/chemweb/ To unsubscribe, send to listserver(a)ic.ac.uk the following message; unsubscribe chemweb List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (rzepa(a)ic.ac.uk)

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Re: paperless submission os Student Cousework
by Jeffrey.Nauss＠UC.Edu 06 Mar '97

06 Mar '97

Well, two quick responses on how to grade paperless assingments and I think we see variations of philosophies here. Dr. Rzepa wrote: > As a IT project, its not a problem since one is looking for content, > presentation etc.... > Not sure how I would cope with organic reaction mechanism etc. I assume "IT" stands for "information technology". In which case, yes, how the material is presented in the electronic media would be the major determining factor for the grade. Still, it would seem awkward to me how one can point out the student's errors without writing something down. I think Dr. Rzepa's last statement is very telling. I think there are many situations where a paperless situation will simply not be practical. Then, Dr. Singer wrote: > there's no essential difference in marking sumbitted coursework on paper > or in an electronic document. As I stated earlier I favour email > submission of work as wordprocessor or spreadsheet file attachments > to email. These files can be extracted, read and edited to include > the marker's comments (in red of course!). The edited file is then > returned to the sender by email so turnround can be very fast. In this case, using the redline markup option found in many wordprocessors allows the instructor to "mark" the assignments. However, everyone is tied to a common software package, i.e. one that can handle the redlines. Granted the turn-around time could be quick but I am skeptical of the overall advantages. Students may have to learn the software. They probably would need to become fairly adept at using it for attachments and such. While this is a valuable skill in itself, could the effort involved be significantly distracting from learning the rest of the course material? I'm not ruling out the use of paperless assignments. I'm just trying to look at practical aspects and to consider possible implementations in my classes. Looking forward to hearing more... -- Jeffrey L. Nauss, PhD Telephone: 513-556-0148 Dir. Molec. Model. Serv. Fax: 513-556-9239 Department of Chemistry e-mail: Jeffrey.Nauss(a)UC.Edu University of Cincinnati URL http://www.che.uc.edu/~nauss ----- chemweb: A list for Chemical Applications of the Internet. Archived as: http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/chemweb/ To unsubscribe, send to listserver(a)ic.ac.uk the following message; unsubscribe chemweb List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (rzepa(a)ic.ac.uk)

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Re: crystal structures with Chime
by RICHARD SINGER 06 Mar '97

06 Mar '97

In reply to my earlier comment on "invisible" inorganic crystal structures Mitch Miller wrote >I think you could work around the problem my coding <embed src="mycrystal.xyz" display3D="ball&stick" height=300 width=300...> >This way the structure would initially appear in ball and stick mode. This is fine if the viewer of the structure (me) is also in control of the web page in which its embedded! The problem I refer to is with third party web pages and was brought to my attention when visiting RB Young & M Mehl's crystal structure website at http://cst-www.navy.nrl.mil/lattice/ you'll see some simple cubic structures which will be displayed by Chime or Rasmol as blank pages until you switch display mode to ball & stick. I can think of no way around this problem - - unless its possible to set up Chime to display as ball & stick by default? Richard Singer ----------------------------------------- Dr Richard Singer School of Applied Chemistry Kingston University Penrhyn Road Surrey KT1 2EE UK Tel 0181 547 2000 ext 2471 FAX 0181 547 7562 ----------------------------------------- ----- chemweb: A list for Chemical Applications of the Internet. Archived as: http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/chemweb/ To unsubscribe, send to listserver(a)ic.ac.uk the following message; unsubscribe chemweb List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (rzepa(a)ic.ac.uk)

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Re: crystal structures with Chime
by Mitch Miller 06 Mar '97

06 Mar '97

Hello Richard, I think you could work around the problem my coding <embed src="mycrystal.xyz" display3D="ball&stick" height=300 width=300...> This way the structure would initially appear in ball and stick mode. If you have any structures on the Web, I'd be glad to verify this approach for you. Mitch At 12:29 AM 3/6/97 -0800, RICHARD SINGER wrote: >You may have encountered the following problem when using Chime > - when viewing structure files in the XYZ format one is >typically offered a blank screen. The reason is that the default >display mode is "stick" mode. XYZ files have no connectivity >information so no bonds are drawn if the lattice parameter is larger >than the threshold value beyond which Chime assumes atoms cannot >bond. Of course the structure appears if you change to "ball and >stick" but this might not occur to the uninitiated who would assume >something was wrong with the structure file. >Is there a way round this problem? > >Richard Singer Mitchell Miller MDL Information Systems, Inc. (801) 569-1390 VoiceMail (800)955-0051 ext. 2163 mitch(a)mdli.com ----- chemweb: A list for Chemical Applications of the Internet. Archived as: http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/chemweb/ To unsubscribe, send to listserver(a)ic.ac.uk the following message; unsubscribe chemweb List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (rzepa(a)ic.ac.uk)

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marking paperless submissions of work
by RICHARD SINGER 06 Mar '97

06 Mar '97

In reply to Jeffrey Nauss who asked about marking paperless submissions of coursework there's no essential difference in marking sumbitted coursework on paper or in an electronic document. As I stated earlier I favour email submission of work as wordprocessor or spreadsheet file attachments to email. These files can be extracted, read and edited to include the marker's comments (in red of course!). The edited file is then returned to the sender by email so turnround can be very fast. Richard Singer ----------------------------------------- Dr Richard Singer School of Applied Chemistry Kingston University Penrhyn Road Surrey KT1 2EE UK Tel 0181 547 2000 ext 2471 FAX 0181 547 7562 ----------------------------------------- ----- chemweb: A list for Chemical Applications of the Internet. Archived as: http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/chemweb/ To unsubscribe, send to listserver(a)ic.ac.uk the following message; unsubscribe chemweb List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (rzepa(a)ic.ac.uk)

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Re: paperless submission os Student Cousework
by Jeffrey.Nauss＠UC.Edu 06 Mar '97

06 Mar '97

On Mar 6, 8:47am, RICHARD SINGER wrote: > Having said that the marking and return of the work was the quickest > ever and I have repeated the exercise with better instructions with > more success. How does one "mark" paperless assignments? An honest question... -- Jeffrey L. Nauss, PhD Telephone: 513-556-0148 Dir. Molec. Model. Serv. Fax: 513-556-9239 Department of Chemistry e-mail: Jeffrey.Nauss(a)UC.Edu University of Cincinnati URL http://www.che.uc.edu/~nauss ----- chemweb: A list for Chemical Applications of the Internet. Archived as: http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/chemweb/ To unsubscribe, send to listserver(a)ic.ac.uk the following message; unsubscribe chemweb List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (rzepa(a)ic.ac.uk)

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Paperless submission
by Dr Mary Masson 06 Mar '97

06 Mar '97

Further to Richard Singer's comments, I have been collecting work on discs for years, and I did have a spate of viruses one year. Now students are told that they will lose a significant number of marks if I find any viruses - so they have all learned to use the virus-checkers. I still virus-check all the discs before going any further, but they have all been clean since I said marks would be lost. ---------------------- Dr Mary Masson Department of Chemistry, University of Aberdeen, Meston Walk, Old Aberdeen AB24 3UE Tel. 01224 272931 m.masson(a)abdn.ac.uk ----- chemweb: A list for Chemical Applications of the Internet. Archived as: http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/chemweb/ To unsubscribe, send to listserver(a)ic.ac.uk the following message; unsubscribe chemweb List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (rzepa(a)ic.ac.uk)

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paperless submission os Student Cousework
by RICHARD SINGER 06 Mar '97

06 Mar '97

My experience of paperless coursework submission at Kingston University has been mixed, but on the whole encouraging! I first tried it a few years ago when 60 second year students were requested to submit some spreadsheet chemistry exercises on floppy disk for marking. I detected several viruses on disks that had been prepared on students home PCs. Beware! On the plus side I was still using the uncollected disks two years later! More recently I tried Email submission of similar work from the first year diploma students. I received several blank attachments, lots of files called "task1.doc" etc which all had to be renamed as they were extracted - it was a nightmare! Having said that the marking and return of the work was the quickest ever and I have repeated the exercise with better instructions with more success. I'd say that on the whole that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, but you really need to think about the experiment before you launch it! I won't be asking for disk submissions again. Richard Singer ----------------------------------------- Dr Richard Singer School of Applied Chemistry Kingston University Penrhyn Road Surrey KT1 2EE UK Tel 0181 547 2000 ext 2471 FAX 0181 547 7562 ----------------------------------------- ----- chemweb: A list for Chemical Applications of the Internet. Archived as: http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/chemweb/ To unsubscribe, send to listserver(a)ic.ac.uk the following message; unsubscribe chemweb List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (rzepa(a)ic.ac.uk)

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